Does everyone need a parasite cleanse? A deep dive on parasites with Robin Foroutan.

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Abby, a functional dietitian and gut health expert. Hi, I'm Jillian, a

[00:00:05] functional dietitian that specializes in women's health and hormones. And this is

[00:00:10] Your Body Has Your Back Podcast. Together we have over 20 years of experience

[00:00:16] supporting clients in healing their gut and hormone symptoms and guiding them

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[00:00:58] Hello everyone, we are so excited for our guest today because we are going to dive into

[00:01:11] a topic that both fascinates and horrifies most people. We're talking about parasites

[00:01:17] and I'm sure you've seen the trending topic on social media but it comes with a lot

[00:01:23] of misconceptions and myths. So we are going to debunk the myths and share all the creepy

[00:01:27] crawly details with our guest Robin Foritan who is an integrative functional

[00:01:32] dietitian and has lovingly gotten herself named the parasite queen. After her own

[00:01:37] health battle, Robin learned firsthand how to create the conditions that allow

[00:01:41] your body to heal itself even if you've been told that your labs are normal.

[00:01:45] She's an expert health detective understanding what your body is trying to tell

[00:01:48] you through its language of symptoms and can help you chart a path towards going

[00:01:52] back to your normal healthy self. Robin's deep understanding of a wide range of

[00:01:57] poorly understood health challenges including IBS, gut infections and parasites,

[00:02:01] fibromyalgia, fatigue, hidden infections, viruses, including tick-borne infections,

[00:02:06] environmental toxins, and mold related toxicity. Plus her expertise knowledge in how to

[00:02:11] support the body makes her an ideal expert to partner with on your healing journey.

[00:02:15] Robin we are so excited to have you. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

[00:02:22] We could not wait to have you on the podcast and I'm sure we will get to this but

[00:02:27] this stemmed from a very alarming tick-tock video that Abby sent me about

[00:02:34] parasites that we are so excited to get your thoughts on. Oh my gosh, yes.

[00:02:38] But to kick things off, will you tell us a little bit about your own healing

[00:02:43] journey and kind of what brought you to the world of functional dietetics and

[00:02:47] how you came to be the parasite queen? Well, it's been a long road to be

[00:02:55] honest and almost all of the things that I specialize in are things that I had

[00:03:01] to go through firsthand. And you know that's not everybody's journey but it's

[00:03:06] apparently it's been mine. So I was fine for a long time and I worked in food

[00:03:13] PR which was really fun and you know tried to convince the public that like

[00:03:19] all this stuff is healthy, functional foods. It was the 90s and I picked up

[00:03:24] miscellaneous infections so when I look back I'm like oh yeah that trip that I

[00:03:29] took to the Hamptons and I had a tick bite and then you know oh yeah there was

[00:03:34] that small period of time that I was having panic attacks really for no

[00:03:39] obvious reason but it all went away. My body was strong, I was young, I was healthy

[00:03:44] and none of it mattered. So you know picked up infections immune system was

[00:03:49] strong and then I got a head concussion and then everything that was sort of

[00:03:55] like hiding and well under control just came out in full force. So I had just

[00:04:01] an explosion of tick infection symptoms that sort of I thought that it was a

[00:04:08] concussion. So you know I kept on going to the neurologist and they kept on

[00:04:12] saying like it was actually like a minor bump and it wasn't that bad and you

[00:04:16] should be okay and just give it time but you know looking back on it I had all

[00:04:20] of these Lyme infections but the weird ones things like my hands would fall

[00:04:25] asleep all the time. The physical therapist was like well you just need to move

[00:04:29] them and I and so I would go to physical therapy and therapy and like do all

[00:04:32] these strengthening exercises but my hands would be falling asleep the more

[00:04:37] that I move them. It just like didn't really make sense. I had memory issues

[00:04:41] and like really was not functional for a couple of years and so because I was

[00:04:46] so occupied with my memory and brain function and I could work for a while

[00:04:52] and and that kind of thing I sort of ignored the fact that I lost a lot of

[00:04:58] weight really steadily without trying to and it wasn't until I was like buying

[00:05:05] new clothes like I you know I went to LA for like one of my relatives bar mitzvets

[00:05:09] or something and I put on my favorite skirt that I hadn't put on in a long time

[00:05:13] and I put it on it was like two sizes too big and I was like oh whoa when did

[00:05:17] that happen but because you know you're a woman in your 20s and all of a sudden

[00:05:22] you're like super skinny without really doing anything part of me was like this

[00:05:27] is probably not okay and then the other part of me was like this is amazing I

[00:05:31] have to eat ice cream every day just to like maintain above 90 pounds it was

[00:05:35] really like it was extreme so that was the parasite being activated and like

[00:05:42] eating all my new trends had a lot of digestive issues but whenever I went to

[00:05:47] like the gastro or or whomever I was I mean I was so bloated and looking back on

[00:05:53] it I had every symptom of SIBO it should have been like a one two three they

[00:05:58] should have been able to identify it immediately I said I woke up with a flat

[00:06:02] belly as soon as I start eating I have intense bloating it gets worse

[00:06:06] throughout the day it's very painful when I eat and you know then by the next

[00:06:12] morning I have a flat belly again so from us the three of us would have

[00:06:17] identified that in an instant but this was a long time ago and it just wasn't

[00:06:22] part of you know the discussion and so I went to gastros and they saw a very thin

[00:06:30] young otherwise healthy woman who complained about stomach pain and bloating

[00:06:35] and they gently suggested that maybe I had a needing disorder and everybody was

[00:06:41] bloated everybody bloated and bloating is normal and I was kind of like really

[00:06:45] offended and was sort of like okay I like would love to eat more but eating is

[00:06:51] really painful and every time I eat anything I'm like in terrible pain so you

[00:06:56] know you just kind of like get on to the SAMHSA real of realizing that no one is

[00:07:01] gonna help you and you're gonna have to figure it out so ultimately I went

[00:07:05] to I went to a nutrition conference an integrative medicine conference and

[00:07:09] listen to a lecture on leaky gut syndrome and was like oh my god this is me

[00:07:16] and so I ended up being able to see the doctor who did that lecture and

[00:07:22] basically described everything that was happening with me and all of my symptoms

[00:07:26] and I went to her and she helped me somewhat and then referred me to a

[00:07:32] dietician but I was like dieticians don't know how to do this but had I

[00:07:36] listened to her she would have sent me to my first integrative dietician who

[00:07:40] later became one of my mentors but I didn't listen and so I missed out but

[00:07:46] that set me on the path and then every practitioner that I went to taught me a

[00:07:51] little bit more helped me a little bit more but really ultimately it was like

[00:07:56] healer heal myself and I worked with some really incredible practitioners and

[00:08:02] learned with really incredible practitioners who were way down the rabbit hole

[00:08:07] when no one else was so I got this amazing exposure to like really really

[00:08:14] fringy high-level stuff that seemed so extreme at the time but now the

[00:08:21] fringies people are just catching up to that stuff that they were doing then

[00:08:25] so I have this like incredible benefit of having exposure early on in my

[00:08:30] career in my functional career to things that like I said people are just

[00:08:36] catching on to them now and parasites were part of it self-infection the lime

[00:08:41] the bargnella these infections that hang on for a long time hide in the gut

[00:08:45] hide in different parts of the body and the cells and so you know it was just

[00:08:51] it was unlucky and it was also lucky but you know as many of us know sometimes

[00:08:57] that's the path for us when we get into the deep healing the big job is healing

[00:09:01] ourselves and it takes us to yeah some amazing places but it's like it's a

[00:09:07] grind for like a good amount of it and then it's so interesting that you're

[00:09:12] like oh had I just gotten connected with that like one person it was Mary Beth

[00:09:16] Augustine you have you know her Mary Beth Augustine is a superstar and that

[00:09:21] would have been I mean you were that was the journey we're meant to take but

[00:09:25] and it like circled back but like it's just so interesting you know Jillian

[00:09:30] I have full shared our story like on the podcast and knowing like we came

[00:09:33] into this and especially into where we are today like so much because of those

[00:09:37] similar you know different but similar stories I feel like the the big

[00:09:42] question in like the social media world that we're like seeing so much today

[00:09:46] of about parasites is like does everyone have a parasite and does everyone

[00:09:52] have to do a parasite cleanse because if you look on social media that's

[00:09:56] pretty much what you're gonna be told so what is your take on that it's kind

[00:10:02] of yes and no so I think that there's this sort of term parasites and we think

[00:10:10] of it only as gut worms and that is flawed so like Babesia is a tick-borne

[00:10:16] infection it's technically a parasite but it doesn't live in the gut so much it

[00:10:19] lives in the blood so we can have blood-borne parasites we can have gut

[00:10:24] parasites we can have parasites in our liver in our eye I mean they get all over

[00:10:29] the place so it really depends on like what kind of critter that you're talking

[00:10:32] about do we all have Helmeth worms yes we all do and it's most likely part of a

[00:10:40] normal balanced functioning microbiome we are so still at the beginning of our

[00:10:47] understanding of what is in that deep dark space we just you know we don't

[00:10:52] really know exactly what's normal what's abnormal what's optimal we're still

[00:10:56] learning but there are these studies that were conducted on people with

[00:11:02] autoimmune where they purposely infected people with these beneficial

[00:11:07] Helmeths I'm never not gonna stutter on that word but infected them with

[00:11:16] these worms to reset the immune system and it worked so we know that they're

[00:11:23] not all bad it's just like the good microbes the bad microbes do we all have

[00:11:27] bacteria in our gut yeah are they all bad no do we all have yeast in our

[00:11:31] gut yeah are they all good no but some of them are good so it's the the

[00:11:36] categorization is is the thing that gets flawed and you know whenever you try to

[00:11:40] over simplify things too much you lose the truth and that's kind of what's

[00:11:47] difficult sometimes in sharing these bits of knowledge with the public is

[00:11:52] that you want to make it easy to understand but sometimes if you simplify it too

[00:11:55] much you lose what's true so yes everybody has parasites no not all of them are

[00:12:04] bad should everybody do a little cleansing cleanse every so often yeah I think

[00:12:09] they should especially if you're someone you know if you eat sushi you're at

[00:12:14] risk if you have pets you are at risk if you eat raw food you're at risk I mean

[00:12:20] if you're walking on a sandy beach you're at risk so they're everywhere but the

[00:12:26] thing to really keep in mind is making sure that your body and your gut is

[00:12:32] balanced and robust and healthy in the good microbes low in the toxins that

[00:12:38] burden the system so that I mean ultimately it's up to your gut microbes

[00:12:43] and your gut immune system to say hey now you're not allowed to proliferate

[00:12:49] here you have to go and so it's not all about the killing killing killing

[00:12:55] and it's certainly not all about the avoidance because that would be pretty

[00:12:57] impossible but you need to have a stomach that secretes an appropriate amount of

[00:13:02] acid to kill whatever you ingest so that you're not so much at risk you have

[00:13:08] to have a gallbladder that is pumping out bile to meet up with the beneficial

[00:13:14] bacteria to make you know like all these all these parts of the digestive

[00:13:19] tract are there to protect us from what we're ingesting because parasites are

[00:13:23] not new they've been here since the dawn of time so you know it's not like

[00:13:28] you know it's not like we can avoid them it's not the plague it's not like

[00:13:34] it's just a gun lot of I appreciate you kind of having this part of the

[00:13:40] conversation and just like a more holistic conversation about parasites

[00:13:44] because I think you know there is so much nuance here and what's not being

[00:13:47] talked about it is the context like you know you're talking about you know

[00:13:51] gut acidity and digestive secretions and you know the gallbladder bile the

[00:13:56] gut immune system are thinking about the nervous system and I think if someone

[00:14:00] is dealing with a problematic you know parasitic infection the context has to

[00:14:06] be considered in terms of treatment right otherwise you could actually make

[00:14:10] someone's symptoms worse ultimately you know in terms of setting them up for

[00:14:14] success so I just appreciate that piece because I think with social media to

[00:14:19] Abby's point it's like the parasite craze and everyone you know needs to

[00:14:23] you know go on a parasite cleanse and you know what you're saying is that yeah

[00:14:27] you know most people probably can benefit from that but you kind of have to

[00:14:30] you know look at the individual in the context and all these different pieces

[00:14:34] yeah it's about the balance it's always about the balance it always comes down

[00:14:39] to just sort of allowing the body to regulate in the way that it's meant to

[00:14:44] and then supporting what should be normal function yeah yeah no that totally

[00:14:50] makes sense and for you know anyone that's like totally new to this parasite

[00:14:55] conversation or they've just sort of seen what's out there on social media if

[00:14:59] you think parasites or if you're kind of evaluating a client what are like the

[00:15:04] top symptoms that you're thinking about in terms of you know ding-ding-ding

[00:15:08] parasites for you yeah there's a lot of them digestive symptoms obviously

[00:15:13] especially if it's a situation you know you know one of the questions that I

[00:15:18] like to ask my clients and to really understand as far as like people's

[00:15:23] symptomology and like how it started did it did it just happen in a day where

[00:15:28] all of a sudden you have like digestive symptoms out of the blue or was it a

[00:15:34] slow build and then all of a sudden you're just sort of like oh the system is

[00:15:38] wonky so if it's like sudden onset that's a big clue if it starts with a food

[00:15:45] poisoning if that's what you can track it back to even if it's not immediately

[00:15:50] after if it was like a few months later or something like that that is a red flag

[00:15:56] skin rashes hives hives was one of the things that how it showed up for

[00:16:04] me but it wasn't hives from beginning it was hives after a very stressful event

[00:16:09] and so the integrative doctor was like I stress but we didn't know anything

[00:16:14] about mass cell activated like we didn't know about histamine things like we

[00:16:18] just didn't know but I was covered in hives for six months every day and it was

[00:16:24] like these pressure hives so it was around my watch and my broad straps and my

[00:16:30] underwear and my socks anywhere that there was pressure on my skin I would make

[00:16:34] hives and so like if I went to a concert or something and I clapped I would get

[00:16:40] hives on my hands from the pressure and so it's this like idiopathic

[00:16:45] udkaria which means hives for we don't know why and I remember it was

[00:16:50] the allergist and he was like yeah we don't know and it can resolve

[00:16:55] spontaneously sometimes it lasts for 10 years and I was like oh my god then I

[00:17:01] found a different doctor and she gave me like a combination of like two

[00:17:05] standard process products and like the six months of hives resolved in like

[00:17:09] two days it was really it felt like magic so you know when you find when you

[00:17:13] find the process that and it works it really feels like magic anyway so hives

[00:17:20] mast cell activation is sort of like the diagnosis disorder doesn't mean

[00:17:25] anything because it doesn't tell you the why's it's just telling you what's

[00:17:30] happening which is useful but you have to find out the why parasites can give

[00:17:35] mast cells lots of food sensitivities or sort of random food allergies like all

[00:17:43] of a sudden as an adult you've got like 10 food allergies to foods that you

[00:17:47] have been eating and it's all been fine and you know just all at once when a

[00:17:52] client comes to me and says like I only have seven safe foods then you know

[00:17:58] that's a parasitic act that is parasites especially when it's like food

[00:18:03] sensitivities that doesn't that they don't have a rhyme or reason where it's

[00:18:07] sort of like I'm okay with apples one week and then the next week they get me

[00:18:10] like terrible hives that kind of thing where it's like hard to pin down and

[00:18:15] it's really just about a gut dysfunction but food allergies is one itchy

[00:18:19] but hole if your but hole itches if your nose is excessively itchy like but

[00:18:26] holes and nose itchiness especially around the full moon and the new moon which

[00:18:36] sounds super weird and witchy but it has to do with our serotonin ups and downs

[00:18:43] and it has to do with the parasites own cycles there they're that's when they

[00:18:48] sort of like become more active around the new moon they lay their eggs around

[00:18:54] your but hole and then they had those eggs hatch and then you have that cycle

[00:18:58] so if you have symptoms that are cycling that's often in some kind of

[00:19:03] infection sometimes parasitic sometimes not what else I made a little list

[00:19:06] because I feel like oh brain fog is a huge one skin rashes we talked about

[00:19:12] cravings for sweets and carbs are also like big and major and ravenous hunger

[00:19:19] at night and so the way that it sounds sometimes is people who are like I eat a

[00:19:26] nice big dinner I hit the veggie category the protein category I have some you

[00:19:35] know some starches or or not whatever but unless I eat either a sweet or a

[00:19:42] starch I feel like I can't stop and it's this feeling of relief when you

[00:19:49] finally give in to the food that the microbe is craving because they have the

[00:19:55] power to release these neurotransmitters that make you feel whatever they want

[00:19:59] you feel just really kind of messed up but there is really no big divider

[00:20:07] between the microbes and their neurotransmitters and the neurotransmitters that

[00:20:13] then affect your brain it's all the same chemicals so you know they can make

[00:20:19] us crave for the things that benefit them even if it's a detriment to us or

[00:20:25] we're like not hungry at all so this kind of like ravenous hunger especially

[00:20:30] at night big cravings for sweets and carbs that you just like cannot curb food

[00:20:35] sensitivities allergies I think I hit them all and just sort of like you know

[00:20:40] diarrhea is a big one constipation is even a more common one because these guys

[00:20:47] want to live they're like super cozy in your gut and they know if they

[00:20:52] constivate you then there's a better chance that they'll stay iron levels

[00:20:57] that keep dropping if you've got like iron deficiency anemia or B

[00:21:02] vitamin like just chronically low B vitamins it could be the microbes are either

[00:21:07] using your bees or in the the way that you can get iron depleted is that there

[00:21:14] is there's a worm that has attached itself to the lining of your intestine and

[00:21:20] it's eat is drinking your blood so sweet dreams with that with that one

[00:21:27] this is why we love raven I know it's like such a wacky wild world and the more you

[00:21:38] learn about it the more it the more crazy it sounds but the more it actually

[00:21:43] makes sense based on what people are telling you because sometimes you have

[00:21:48] these people who are not at risk for like iron deficiency why are you so why

[00:21:53] are you so anemic and why can't you hold on to your iron and it's because

[00:21:58] there's something that is depleting you that's it's not you it's in there

[00:22:02] and it's depleting you so these are probably those are probably the most

[00:22:07] major signs did I forget anything that you guys know of teeth grinding teeth

[00:22:12] grinding at night, bruxism that's a big one

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[00:23:22] I feel like you hit on a lot of the major ones and I like that you pointed out

[00:23:25] the full moon and and new moon because I do feel like that's always so telling

[00:23:31] with clients just in terms of you know a reported flare with you know a variety

[00:23:36] of symptoms and then you know we kind of take a look and notice okay you know

[00:23:40] it happened you know right before in and during the the full moon like let's

[00:23:44] keep monitoring this and okay sure enough there's this trend so I just I think

[00:23:48] that piece is so fascinating yeah I had this gentleman who he was so committed

[00:23:53] he just wanted to lose weight and he he was like he had so much self-blame that

[00:23:58] it was like all this he doesn't have willpower but he as soon as he said like a

[00:24:03] couple times a month I wake up in the night I raid the cabinet and I eat all

[00:24:07] of the kids food like all their cookies and snacks and all this stuff and I'm

[00:24:11] like that's interesting let's see when that happened and we actually like looked

[00:24:16] on the calendar and tracked it back and it it came that intense desire to

[00:24:23] wake up in the night and eat everything happened twice a month around the new

[00:24:29] moon and around the full moon and his body's response to that was he would get

[00:24:35] so inflamed that he couldn't walk down the stairs and that was the part that

[00:24:41] was confusing to him because he thought it was a willpower issue and then he was

[00:24:44] like but why do I get so achy after and it's because there you know there was

[00:24:49] a sort of like a big feeding frenzy and then the microbes do their metabolism

[00:24:54] and then you have all these toxins that you have to clear and if you can't it

[00:24:58] feels like crap so fascinating and I feel like to like I love the point of

[00:25:04] like you know that we're looking for like we're not always looking for the

[00:25:08] zebra so it's like when we like work with clients it's like okay like are

[00:25:11] you you know doing the balance blood sugar are you doing like you know

[00:25:15] working on the circadian rhythm like all the things that we've talked about in

[00:25:17] this in this podcast and then when someone's still doing all those things yet

[00:25:21] continuing to have these like flares and symptoms and things and it's like

[00:25:26] okay there's something else at play here so it's like anyone you know

[00:25:29] listening that's kind of like wait all those things it's like all right do we

[00:25:32] have the foundation if the foundations there and we've still got these like funky

[00:25:36] interesting things then it's like okay let's you know maybe maybe we're looking

[00:25:40] at a parasite zebra like right right it yeah because you you do have to create

[00:25:46] the foundation first because blood sugar ups and downs can do that whole

[00:25:52] like desire to eat late at night if you're like super strict reduce self all day

[00:25:56] and then you get into the evening like sometimes your body knows that we

[00:25:58] didn't get enough food so you're hungry that's not what we're talking about but

[00:26:03] like the constant middle of the night like getting out of bed in the middle of

[00:26:08] the night in a consistent way to get up and eat is not that's not and that's not

[00:26:13] normal oh yeah now you kind of mentioned a couple like areas of like where do

[00:26:20] parasites come from like I mean I think everyone's like well haven't traveled

[00:26:24] like a third world country so like where would I have gotten a parasite like

[00:26:28] what are some of those like telltale you kind of said like sushi things like

[00:26:31] that but like what's like the the quick and dirty list that I mean the the

[00:26:36] biggest misconception is that you would have had to travel to a developing

[00:26:41] nation and like drink from a puddle on the floor to get a parasite it's just

[00:26:48] you know this is just not how it works and I think it's such a blind spot in

[00:26:52] medicine for sure but it's still a blind spot in in integrative and functional medicine

[00:26:57] in many circles too it's just not on everybody's radar in a way that it should be

[00:27:01] so the biggest one I mean for New York City it's sushi I feel like pretty

[00:27:08] certain about that it is sushi and I always get these like fantastic videos

[00:27:13] that everybody sends me on Instagram and I think somebody sent me yesterday

[00:27:17] the day before but it was like they took a chunk of salmon raw salmon and

[00:27:21] they put it under a microscope and like found the little squiggly guy that

[00:27:26] was alive and moving around because you know some of them don't die when you

[00:27:29] freeze them and bloody blossom salmon is a risky fish for raw and

[00:27:36] the way that it was explained to me is that it's supposed to be in a super cold

[00:27:40] water environment and because the waters have warmed

[00:27:44] that allows more pathogens to thrive in the water and then that means that there's

[00:27:49] more pathogens in the fish I don't know if this is true or not but it makes sense

[00:27:53] that that would happen so sushi is huge contributor

[00:27:58] and I just feel like we all love sushi so much there is a safe way to eat sushi by

[00:28:04] the way but if you are like having big gut symptoms just stop just stop eating

[00:28:09] sushi for now and just don't do it

[00:28:13] so that's a big one pets we love our pets I had a new client last week and he was like are

[00:28:19] you gonna make me get rid of my cat and I'm like no no are you allergic to her? No

[00:28:27] you don't have to get rid of the pet just sort of understand that having a pet

[00:28:32] and like dealing with their poop your at risk it's a potential vector but

[00:28:37] just like everybody gives their dog like heartworm medicine the heartworm medicine

[00:28:42] v it's like ivermectin it's four parasites it covers for intestinal parasites it's the same drug

[00:28:49] it's basically heartworm medicine is piranto which is pinnex and recess pinworm medicine

[00:28:55] which is over the counter for humans and then it's you know what was the other one I said

[00:29:01] I have a brain fog in it's like animals and like stool

[00:29:10] yeah ivermectin oh brain fog is real it happens to all of us i'm on a new protocol and the

[00:29:20] die off the die off is there but yeah so just sort of be on top of like making sure that

[00:29:28] you're treating your pet for because they do preventative treatments for like heartworm and

[00:29:33] things like that but that those same medicines also target worms and pathogens in in their gut too

[00:29:41] so like if you get a new puppy and the new puppy has like giardia like be on the lookout maybe

[00:29:46] cycle yourself through some herbs because there are a lot of people pick up like a low grade

[00:29:51] giardia infection from their puppies with giardia because they're like cleaning up poop so you have

[00:29:57] to be careful about things like that kids sorry are probably also another vector kids get like

[00:30:02] pinworms and stuff and that full that just flies through a family like rapid fire but the adults

[00:30:08] might not feel it the kids are sitting there scratching their tushies and so you can see it in them

[00:30:14] and pediatricians will will treat the whole family but they'll they won't always treat the parents

[00:30:19] so parents just kind of like be on the lookout that if any of your kids get pinworm just treat everybody

[00:30:26] treat everyone so that's a big one and then there's the wild cards like could it be from raw

[00:30:33] solids yeah yeah it could it could be from anywhere anything raw we don't really know I think

[00:30:39] that there's a lot of potential we could get it from water who knows we could get it from swimming

[00:30:46] in lakes probably there's definitely people who have who've symptoms have started after you know

[00:30:52] a lake excursion we don't know all of it but certainly sushi certainly pets certainly kids

[00:30:59] certainly travel but not always and just like regular food poisoning you know it happens

[00:31:06] and I think it's so helpful that you're just giving people things to think about and be aware of

[00:31:13] and it's not that you're not gonna travel have kids or pets or you know eat lettuce or sushi ever

[00:31:18] in your life and yeah I think it's about the awareness right and I think that's where there's

[00:31:23] just like a disconnect you know that that I really see on social media is that it's fear mongering

[00:31:28] right and people are afraid and you know they're just missing the mark with this whole conversation

[00:31:34] so I just I love your approach to talking about this because I think you know this gives people

[00:31:39] the ability to just create that awareness pay attention to symptoms and patterns or if there was

[00:31:44] an exposure and things start to feel funky and at the end of the day too in terms of you know

[00:31:49] creating a really healthy environment in your body that is resilient and supporting a strong

[00:31:54] immune system and digestion like these are you know the key things and it's not about like living

[00:32:01] in fear um right parasites it's like it you know it would be the same thing as like living in fear

[00:32:08] of like air pollution and then never leaving the house it's just I mean come on you can't live in a bubble

[00:32:14] and it would be sad to like never have roped oysters again it's like one of my favorite foods so

[00:32:20] you just have to shore up your own digestion and gut microbiome so that you can do those things

[00:32:25] just don't eat them in like shady restaurants like make sure you're at a good spot that's near the ocean

[00:32:31] and breach yeah and then maybe like take some antimicrobials after I was just having this conversation

[00:32:41] with a client about sushi who I think saw something on social media and um I was like look don't eat

[00:32:47] at like a sushi bar where sushi's been you know sitting out under heating lamps and you know we

[00:32:53] have no idea where it's sourced from like think about quality think about you know safety just use

[00:32:58] common sense at the end of the day with some of these things so yeah yeah no airport sushi people

[00:33:03] I was just gonna say that the airport sushi really I'm just sort of like you're about to get on a

[00:33:10] flight is this the gamble that you would take because airports get deliveries once a week

[00:33:17] I used to certify I used to certify restaurants and they like they get deliveries once a week

[00:33:22] because they have to go through all the security and all the scanning I think now they've like

[00:33:26] upped it to maybe twice a week but you're still like that sushi that comes in once or twice a

[00:33:31] week depending upon the airport so you're like yeah yeah yeah so I'm curious what your thoughts are

[00:33:41] on parasite testing so what are the best ways um to test for parasites and why are they so hard

[00:33:47] to test for that's the that's probably the trickiest part is testing for them and finding them

[00:33:55] because number one you're only gonna catch what was in that bowel movement you you it's not

[00:34:02] it's we're we just don't know if stool tests are actually representative of everything in the gut

[00:34:12] and every test has its inherent strength and weakness the issue is is that you know you get food

[00:34:19] poisoning it doesn't resolve you go to your doctor and they order what's called an O&P and OVA

[00:34:24] and parasite test it's like looking for three or four things it's wildly inaccurate and it's

[00:34:30] wildly insensitive so it's like this waste of a test but unfortunately people are like oh well

[00:34:35] I got tested for parasites and it and it came back negative so that you know dodge that bullet

[00:34:42] but it's really like it's not true and even the the functional medicine stool tests that I

[00:34:48] really love and use very routinely they do not pick up parasites they miss it all the time

[00:34:55] sometimes you can be lucky enough to see there's like little red flags that you can kind of read

[00:35:00] between the lines on those kinds of tests but really I mean I can't think of one time that I found

[00:35:09] a worm parasite show up on a functional medicine test I had one online did you I'm the only one

[00:35:18] I've ever seen of any client that's a lucky find though it was terrifying I was at IHS and my

[00:35:26] results popped up that was the first year I met you Robin and I literally was like I have a worm

[00:35:31] and like the rest of the weekend I was like I'm sick to my stomach confession I had a worm

[00:35:39] that's amazing yeah because they just those tests are fantastic and they're so helpful they find

[00:35:45] a lot of things that other tests don't find and they look for a lot of things that other tests

[00:35:49] don't look for but they're not perfect and they don't always find things there's a couple of tests

[00:35:54] that are out there that are better than most but really the reason why they're so difficult to detect

[00:36:01] is that parasites specifically worms when they die they release these enzymes that dissolve their

[00:36:10] body so you can't find a dead parasite you can find a weakened one an egg or a larva

[00:36:18] but you'll never you won't catch a dead one so it sort of like depends on how robust they are

[00:36:24] because if they're robust they're hanging out they're not coming out oh another symptom is

[00:36:30] pain or like a little bit of puffiness at the Iliocicol valve specifically

[00:36:38] and in the areas where your intestines make a big curve not the small intestines but the large

[00:36:44] intestines there's like some big curves there's like the sigmoid colon curve there's like

[00:36:50] these curves so it's sort of like the place where the small intestine meets the large intestine

[00:36:55] that's called the Iliocicol valve for whoever doesn't know what that is that is a hot spot for

[00:37:01] where parasites like to hang out so if you have specifically like that location and it's it's

[00:37:08] sort of like in the kind of area of your appendix so people are like oh no it's my appendix if

[00:37:13] it's not your appendix it might be your Iliocicol valve anyway so the testing is just not that

[00:37:19] accurate when it comes to parasites and I think one of the big issues within every medicine

[00:37:24] including integrative functional medicine is that some practitioners rely too heavily on the tests

[00:37:33] and one of the things that I know that we all kind of agree on is you know you're treating

[00:37:37] the person and what they're telling you and the tests are there to just sort of like

[00:37:41] disprove or prove out what your suspicions are we don't treat to the test we treat to the person

[00:37:48] and that's the thing to really always be mindful of if you're working with a practitioner or you

[00:37:54] are a practitioner is that like if the testing is not showing what you really think is there

[00:38:01] there's probably more there's probably more there and it's not showing up on the test and so

[00:38:06] it's good to know that the testing is not super reliable in this specific way

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[00:38:53] so interesting too I feel like the connection of like you saying that at like the Iliosecle valve

[00:38:58] is where like parasite tang or like parasite hanging in like the gallbladder or the bile ducts

[00:39:03] and like this is so much of how like even like parasite infections can be like the reason why

[00:39:08] someone has recurring sebo but people like if you go to a provider they're like oh we're just

[00:39:13] going to treat the sebo like I've had people come to me who have been on 10 rounds of antibiotics

[00:39:18] for sebo and it's like groundhogs day every time they go and you're like we have to do something

[00:39:22] different because clearly that's not working and there must be you know something else at play

[00:39:27] here and it's like is it a parasite infection that's creating this like perfect little environment

[00:39:31] for these like dynamics to happen but it's like we can't keep pressing the sebo button because this

[00:39:36] poor person's just going to be on antibiotics for the rest of their life.

[00:39:40] So like such an interesting connection and I feel like that kind of brings up this idea of

[00:39:45] is it just about parasites or are there other factors like at play that allow for parasites to thrive

[00:39:52] I think about like is it toxins is it in other infections is it emotions is it everything that

[00:40:02] it's all of you Bob. So there's this idea that we've sort of like talked about probably I would say

[00:40:09] the first time I heard this was a solid 15 years ago maybe even a little longer now

[00:40:15] but it's this idea I call it the idea of the Russian nesting dolls

[00:40:21] where like within the doll there's another doll and hiding within that doll there's another doll

[00:40:26] and you can't and there's some truth to this and by no means this is not like you know

[00:40:33] a medical fact. This is medical hypothesis that we think is the way that it works

[00:40:39] and we haven't we haven't seen any evidence that disproves it so this is sort of like our

[00:40:43] operating hypothesis is that you know sometimes the parasitic infection was because you ate some

[00:40:50] sushi and it took hold and you have a parasite and these are the cases that clear up relatively

[00:40:57] easily but sometimes you get these cases and you are just like treating people with parasites

[00:41:02] and they are pooping out the worms and pooping out the worms and it feels like it's never going to end

[00:41:07] and that's when you have to get into the gallbladder as you said and like you have to go into all

[00:41:11] of the nooks and crannies or the digestive tract all the places where these types of pathogens

[00:41:15] like to hide but at a certain point you have to ask yourself other questions and one of them is

[00:41:20] why are these here and why are they in such abundance and there's this idea that they're not

[00:41:27] all bad and they're not all there to hurt you either it's kind of like

[00:41:33] the parasites come in to eat infections they eat infections and they eat toxins and if you can

[00:41:40] see me on the screen I'm kind of doing this little like Pac-Man motion because that is how I express

[00:41:47] with my hands and so you have this parasitic worm that comes in to help you out and so it's going

[00:41:55] to eat the Lyme disease and it's gonna eat the yeast and it's gonna eat the mold and the

[00:42:00] micotoxins and it's gonna eat the viruses and then it acts as a holding place for you so that

[00:42:09] it's protecting you from these things that are also in the environment. If there is a lot of toxin

[00:42:17] and virus and infection and more it's going to replicate and so then you have this picture where

[00:42:26] instead of helping you now there's too many there's an overgrowth and an imbalance and now it's

[00:42:31] affecting your own gut immune system. Now your gut immune system is being suppressed because there's

[00:42:36] too many of these and not enough of the good guys so you kind of you know there's

[00:42:43] sometimes the parasite itself is the root cause and other times it's just one of the contributing

[00:42:50] factors in the whole like spectrum of root causes. So mold and yeast and tick-borne illness form

[00:42:59] these kinds of complexes together and so sometimes the parasite is the thing that's holding people

[00:43:07] back from completely healing from the tick-borne illness or the Epstein Bar virus or you know whatever

[00:43:13] it is. Sometimes it's the mold they're still being exposed to mold and those parasites are actually

[00:43:18] trying to serve you by like gobbling up all the mycotoxins but you know that's there's an ecosystem

[00:43:26] that's there and there's always some sort of innate wisdom that's there so and you have to

[00:43:32] honor that really like it's not all wrong and it's not all bad and you know there's also the

[00:43:38] these sort of like lessons sometimes there's sometimes like life lessons to learn where I remember

[00:43:45] asking a woman and you know we had been we'd been working on parasites for a long time she was

[00:43:50] just like a never-ending stream of parasites and she was getting better but we weren't getting to the

[00:43:56] it was kind of like we've been doing this for a year when does it end and I remember talking

[00:44:00] about having this really like this in-depth conversation with her of like do you feel like there are

[00:44:07] people in your life in your life that are taking advantage of you are you not setting boundaries

[00:44:13] and we had this whole conversation of like she had these sort of parasites these quote parasites

[00:44:21] in her life that were depleting her like actually making her feel depleted in her life force

[00:44:28] and so she ended up going to a friend of hers who was a shaman and she did this like shaman journey

[00:44:36] and after the shaman journey she like pooped out a whole bunch of parasites we didn't even have

[00:44:42] herbs at the time so it's there's so many nuances and so many pieces of this of like why is your

[00:44:49] body holding onto this thing is it because of something on the physical plane is it something

[00:44:54] on the emotional plane there's so much that we don't really understand and this is why it's

[00:44:59] like fun and trippy to go down like the woo you know I was scared in the beginning to tell people

[00:45:04] about parasites and I was kind of nervous to tell them about the whole full moon piece of it too

[00:45:09] and now it's become like easy easy to talk about and easy to say like you know you don't think

[00:45:15] that you're gonna be you know either laughed at or like you know oh that couldn't possibly be true

[00:45:24] and and you were you were in it early you were truly were having these conversations I feel like before

[00:45:30] you know anyone was really having them publicly in in this you know space for sure but now it's like

[00:45:38] you know all the cool kids are doing it apparently on social media but just not in the way that

[00:45:42] that we would like yeah I did this interview with readers digest with this writer that I

[00:45:48] that I work with from time to time and she wanted to talk about like the TikTok trends

[00:45:54] um having to do with parasites and she was like come on tell me the papaya seed thing is not true

[00:46:00] I was like actually that one is true can you give me another one? I can confirm that one

[00:46:07] and it's just it's sort of like an uh it's a kitchen treatment it's like a what's the

[00:46:12] opposite of an old wives tale it's like the opposite of an old wives tale it's kitchen wisdom

[00:46:17] where you know in tropical places that's something that they use you eat the papaya seeds and you

[00:46:22] sort of do a little purge I wouldn't recommend it unless you're like brave and you know what to expect

[00:46:28] because it's not gentle it's not a gentle treatment it can be really aggressive but you know

[00:46:35] there's research behind it not a ton but it exists and it's something that certain cultures have

[00:46:39] been doing for a long long time so there's there's wisdom in that too. And on the topic of TikTok

[00:46:46] trends we wanted to ask you with all the craziness out there what is kind of the I mean we definitely

[00:46:53] have some we could throw in here if you need any ammunition but we were curious kind of in terms

[00:46:58] of what you've seen what is the craziest sort of TikTok social media myth or you know related to

[00:47:05] Parasite. Now I'm not on TikTok but I think the biggest myth is that this is not a problem

[00:47:13] that to me that's the biggest myth because there's just there's so much denial in the medical field

[00:47:20] and there is such an effort to poo poo this as you know real and effective and helpful

[00:47:27] and that is really tragic because a lot of people get significantly better in ways that you

[00:47:34] sometimes they don't even share with me what the problem is and the problem goes away you know

[00:47:38] what I mean like I had this woman and the thing she said to me was I I can only eat seven foods I have

[00:47:45] seven safe safe foods and so I was like you have parasites and no one had told her that before she

[00:47:51] had been through the gamut of regular medicine, integrative medicine she'd been all over. Anyway

[00:47:58] she had such inflammation in the whole area so it didn't just affect her her anus it was

[00:48:07] that whole peritoneal tissue leading down to her vagina the whole her whole growing was so inflamed

[00:48:15] and she never told me this until we were we were done with our work. She was so inflamed that she

[00:48:21] couldn't have sex with her partner and it had been like that for a long time this is a young woman

[00:48:26] in her 30s and that was something she never mentioned to me and once we kind of got her through the

[00:48:32] critical mass of things and she stopped being so reactive to food we get out a lot of foods back

[00:48:36] in she went on she had a master's degree she could really like go and move forward in her life

[00:48:42] and she said you know the greatest thing was that she could be intimate with her her boyfriend again

[00:48:48] you know boyfriend fiancee husband I don't remember but with her partner and that like I said

[00:48:53] that was something that she didn't even tell me so it's a shame for medical practitioners to be

[00:48:59] in denial of this very very common core imbalance in people's guts when there's so much healing

[00:49:08] done but back to the tiktok things remind me I don't know if I've seen anything of the juice one

[00:49:14] I meant to send it to you Rowan but I don't think I did um of this girl like soaking her feet

[00:49:21] in like a sink with like apple cider vinegar and like Epsom salt and like baking soda and was like

[00:49:28] parasite parasite look at that parasite look at this pair I'm like that's like dead skin girl like

[00:49:33] excuse me like it had like millions maybe I'm exaggerating but I'm pretty sure I'd have like millions

[00:49:41] of views and it was like like how to parasite cleanse or you know walking through the whole process

[00:49:47] and yes she literally had her feet in the sink with apple cider vinegar and baking soda

[00:49:52] I don't know that that's gonna cut it but you know what the the I'll share this with you guys

[00:49:56] the so the other thing that people lift us in me and I also I love to get it so don't stop people

[00:50:02] who do this I'd get like all of the weird cool videos but also like the horrifying ones so a few

[00:50:09] years ago I think this was in the Dominican Republic there was this couple like doing their like

[00:50:14] romantic walk on the beach barefoot but there was some sort I think it was like hookworm there

[00:50:19] was some sort of infestation in the sand and you some there are some worms that can bury through

[00:50:25] your foot skin and they had like infection at the skin surface level I haven't seen that so much

[00:50:32] in practice I've I've read about it I think it's a different kind of parasite but discussing nonetheless

[00:50:38] but that does like I don't want to poo poo I'll poo poo the things that are stupid but I like

[00:50:45] hesitate to poo poo foot baths because like if you can get them in through your skin you can probably

[00:50:53] get them out through your skin but I don't think that they show up like that I think the times

[00:50:58] that I've been suspicious of things coming through the skin is like you'll form a little

[00:51:03] like weird pimple and then something crazy comes out of the pimple when you squeeze it

[00:51:09] and if that's the case I'm all for an Epsom Salt Bath but a random foot soak is unlikely to pull

[00:51:17] out parasites and it's not going to get the ones from your intestinal and your digestive tract I

[00:51:21] mean think about biology guys yeah we gotta we gotta go in there and I'm like and we can show you

[00:51:26] I mean I know Robin you have because I've got my collection of like the things that we see come

[00:51:31] out the other side of either ourselves or clients oh yeah oh it's so so fun I literally the most fun

[00:51:38] thing clients are like should I send you a photo I'm like send me the photo yeah my

[00:51:44] two heads up first just send me like a message to say like exactly so I'm not like I need

[00:51:49] the heads up because if I'm like looking through my phone and also eating something I just want

[00:51:54] to know what I will be seeing because we can see things come out the other side that like is it

[00:51:59] biofilms is it parasites like you know it's better out than in better out than in always yeah

[00:52:08] oof and the liver flukes are always like oh the liver flukes are the most disgusting to me

[00:52:14] if it looks like a rolled up piece of tomato skin and you haven't had tomatoes in quite some time

[00:52:20] that's a liver fluk people are gonna lead this episode with an abundance of new new knowledge and

[00:52:28] and they're gonna be dissecting their poop today not a requirement but I won't just sway you

[00:52:34] from doing it if you want to feel like when I first started like learning about parasites

[00:52:38] I like what's learned and especially like the kitchen medicine of it learning like lime juice has

[00:52:43] like anti-parasitic like qualities to it and I was like oh my god am I filled with parasites because

[00:52:47] like margaritas are like my absolute favorite thing and I could like drink lime juice so I was

[00:52:51] like oh god I have so many parasites I wonder like I just like like draw to lime juice in my life

[00:52:57] I was like I still love lime juice and I think I'm clear of parasites at this point I love lime juice

[00:53:03] best I refuse to believe that that is a sign no I made that up so rumors are here but it does

[00:53:10] have anti-parasitic qualities well that's the that's the beauty of like all of these botanicals

[00:53:17] is that garlic does clove does oregano does I didn't know about the lime juice that's super

[00:53:23] interesting like some of the zest the citrus zest do there's like all of these categories of food

[00:53:29] pomegranate seeds do you know there's so many foods that are natural anti-parasitic so you know

[00:53:36] kitchen medicine is where it's out yeah always love using our functional foods therapeutic foods

[00:53:43] so this was amazing and I feel like we were gonna end up needing to do like a part two on this

[00:53:47] because we're gonna have you know so many so many questions but this was so awesome and

[00:53:52] to kind of wrap things up will you tell our listeners where they can find you how they could

[00:53:57] potentially you know reach out or work with you or connect yeah so my website is nutrition by

[00:54:04] Robin Robin is spelled with an i n r o b i n and on instagram i am for utan dot nutrition

[00:54:15] perfect well our parasite queen we thank you so much and the name will just continue to live on

[00:54:21] because it is so true any funky or weird things that you're like huh is this normal like send it

[00:54:26] to Robin uh what are the arms with it she loved that i love it thanks for having me guys so much

[00:54:34] so fun thank you so much so fun thank you thank you for listening to your body has your back

[00:54:50] podcast if you enjoyed today's podcast episode please take a minute to leave us a five star review

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[00:55:20] jillian greets rd thank you and see you in the next episode